Step 8 Toward Recovery | Making Amends

Speaker 2 00:00:02 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Pursue God podcast. Today we are in our steps to recovery, the 12 steps. Today we’re on step number eight, join. I’m Pastor Brian joining the studio by Pastor Mark, pastor Harris. Guys, you’ve got some great insights on step number eight. Eric, before we even share this step, what, what makes this step sort of noteworthy? We’ve come to number eight. Why is this important?

Speaker 1 00:00:26 Yeah, I think this is the step that all of our family f and friends want us to get to. Um, I’ve worked with a lot of people that are family and friends of an addict, and they’re like, when are they gonna tell me, sorry, you know, <laugh>, when are they going to, you know, realize that they hurt us and they’re gonna try to make that right? And so I think that, uh, this is the place where everybody wants us to get to, but there’s a reason why it’s number eight, because we’ve had to deal with ourselves first. If we, if we can’t get healthy internally, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, how are we gonna be any good to any anyone else? And so we’ve made it to now where we can start making a list and helping, uh, people around us know that we wanna make things. Right.

Speaker 2 00:01:18 Mark, why don’t you read the actual step from the big book.

Speaker 3 00:01:21 So it says, uh, make a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

Speaker 2 00:01:28 All right. Now I just gotta poke a little fun at this for a second. So we’re still not doing anything, right, <laugh>, we’re still talking about do. So next time in step nine, we’re actually going to make amends, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. But, but, okay. I’m not, I’m not trying to be harsh here. I, I get that. You need to think about it first, right? You really need to be introspective and think about it, and that’s what we’re doing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:01:52 Well, I think it’s important to, you know, make sure we are not only, you know, it’s talking about making a list. Like we really through all of our inventory and are given so much of this over to God. I mean, we should now have, you know, quite a list put together of people, right? And we want that to be an exhaustive list. We don’t want to miss something. We don’t want something that, you know, further on down the line we’re gonna have to deal with again, because we didn’t deal with it the first time. Um, and so, yeah, this is, we want to do it right the first time. And that’s why there’s this step of making the list and then becoming willing to make amends.

Speaker 2 00:02:35 Okay. So let me push back a little bit on this. I’m gonna be the, I’m gonna play the devil’s advocate for the person out there, the addict out there who has gone through these first several steps, and now they get to this one, and they’re like, you know, I don’t, I don’t really need that for my healing. I don’t that my addiction’s just about me. It’s my, it’s my issue, it’s my problem. I don’t, don’t really want to have to do this. I want to, can’t I just skip this? Can’t I just skip step eight, step nine? Do I really need this for my healing, for my recovery? What would you say to that?

Speaker 1 00:03:10 I would say that the no human being was created or made to live life alone and on their own. And so, relationships are a big part of making us healthy. Um, and as Christians, we’re called to love others and to forgive others as God has forgiven us. You know, the Bible says in Romans 1218, if possible, so far as it depends on you live peaceably with all. And so we have this, um, we have this command to be at peace with everyone around us. And as we, I think we brought up, uh, the serenity prayer earlier, I think it was last week or in the last few weeks. You know, the whole idea of serenity is peace. Well, you can’t really live in peace if you’ve got everybody around you mad at you or, or unresolved issues in the relationships in your life. Again, you know, addiction, a lot of people think that, Hey, this is, I was just harming myself. I’m not harming anyone else. But if we’ve been real throughout, like Mark said, all these steps, we do have a major list of people that we have harmed. And so to get to the place where we, we can have peace of mind, um, in our relationships, we’ve gotta deal with this

Speaker 2 00:04:29 Issue. Okay, I’m gonna keep pushing back. Right? So what about the guy that says, I’ve already burned all those bridges. Why don’t I just make a new set of friends? These are my clean friends. I’ve burned all these bridges with all these other people. Let’s just leave well enough alone. And I’ll just set, I, I get it, pastor Eric, I want relationships, but I’ll just, I’ll just be better with this new group of people instead of kind of digging into all this stuff from the past.

Speaker 3 00:04:57 Well, I would say, say that there’s, there’s two reasons for that. One reason is, um, I don’t know another person’s heart. I don’t know how they’re going to react. I, I don’t want to deny, we, we can’t deny people the opportunity to forgive us because it doesn’t just, you know, it’s, it weighs on them too. It weighs on us, and it weighs on them. And if we’re gonna deny them the opportunity to forgive somebody, like we’re commanded to do in the Bible, so especially if they’re believers that we would think that we’ve burned bridges with, you know, believers are called, we’re called to live peaceably with each other, to forgive one another, our, our faults. And if we’re denying somebody that opportunity, then we’re not, we’re not helping them to live biblically. But the flip side of that is that this step isn’t all necessarily for other people either.

Speaker 3 00:05:49 This step actually is a lot for us. It’s getting to this point of humility and realizing I’ve created a mess. Yes, we are forgiven by God, right? But I have consequences still here, you know, on this earth with the people around me. And I need to do what I can to make that right, not only for their peace of mind, but for mine to take a lot of that weight off, whether they’re going to choose to forgive me or not. That’s something that we do talk about a lot in this step when we’re mentoring somebody, is it’s not necessarily about if they’re gonna forgive you or not. It’s whether you are, you are extending the olive branch, you’re cleaning your side of the street.

Speaker 1 00:06:32 Yeah. And we call it, yeah, exactly. Cleaning your side of the street means that you’re clearing your conscience. Because again, our conscience has caused us to try to escape and self-medicate, to not feel the feelings of guilt and shame. Again, these are recurring feelings and thoughts that addicts have. And so to clean our side of the street means that we do everything that we, we can to be righteous, to do the next right thing, whether people accept it or not. It’s for our own recovery first, and then for other people. And so that’s what family and friends need to hear too. It’s even when we get to this step, which is a step where everybody’s waiting for aari, um, they need to do it for them before they need to do it for you. Um, and I know how hard it is to wait for an apology sometimes. Um, but again, I think there’s a principle if you’re a Christian that has a, a child or a, a family member or a friend that’s an addict, you also have this call on your life to absorb the offense and to be a forgiver, even when they haven’t even asked for forgiveness. And so this is really, again, a step for the addict.

Speaker 2 00:07:45 Okay. You kind of already addressed my third, my third devil’s advocate statement is, well, they’re not, they’re not even gonna hear, they’re gonna slam the door on my face. They’re not even gonna hear it. They don’t even want it. I’ve burned too many bridges with them. So, um, it’s embarrassing to me. And I, I think they’re gonna gimme the stiff arm. Anyway. What, so what do you say to that person?

Speaker 3 00:08:06 Well, this is, this is a, um, a step in humility as well. That’s why I think that this, it’s important that this comes after step seven. Step seven was, you know, humbly ask him to remove our shortcomings. We get to this level of humility here, and this is another, this is another stepping stone in, in becoming more humble, becoming more God-honoring in our life. Um, and so regardless of how we think somebody’s gonna react, um, whether we think that they even remember this or, or anything, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, we are, we are doing this, uh, because we want to live this new life that we’re called to live. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Speaker 1 00:08:49 Yeah. And I think, again, if we’ve gotten to this place in our faith as we’ve been walking through the Bible and through these steps where we say, well, I certainly believe that God forgave me. So if a human being can’t forgive me, um, that’s on them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> bec. But at least I know that the creator of the universe loves me and has let it go. And so if a person, you know, calls themself a, a Christian, then they’ve, that’s between them. And God, they’ve gotta deal with that. That’s none of my business. Um, but at least I know that the most important person forgives me. And then I can go, um, use that with confidence to then go out to the rest of the world. And, and what I would say is, um, you know, next week we’ll talk about, uh, when and when it’s a good time to do that. When it’s unsafe to go, you know, maybe you have some, you know, old using friends or someone at a bar or an old relationship. It’s just not good for you to go physically talk to them or be around them. There are boundaries that you put in place for this whole thing. But as a general rule where we’re trying to get to the point where we’re owning up to and cleaning our side of the street mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 00:10:05 <affirmative>. Okay, you guys convinced me, right? I’m ready to make my list. Who, who goes on the list?

Speaker 3 00:10:14 Well, this, this is an exhaustive list. I, I mean, it really is. It’s, it’s anybody that we have caused offense to, anybody that we’ve hurt, um, by, by this point, we know who’s going on the list because we’ve, we’ve addressed it somewhere throughout doing our, our, you know, moral inventory, um, going through our shortcomings. We’ve, we’ve recognized how many people that we’ve wronged in, you know, many different ways. Uh, so I don’t that, that’s a tough question to answer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s gonna be different for everybody. Um, but it should be a pretty exhaustive list, I would say. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:10:58 Yeah. But I would say that I think that the first person that can go on the list, other than God, <laugh>, first and foremost, it should be to God. But the first tangible person ought to be ourselves. It ought to be, um, we recognize that we have a need to be forgiving of our own selves. We’ve let ourselves down. We’ve done a lot of things, um, that’s caused us, you know, guilt. And we feel remorseful for that. We feel bad for that. And, and before we go around asking people for forgiveness, um, and telling people what we’ve done to them and how we’ve wronged them, first we have to, first we’re, we’re clean with God. And we’ve done a lot of that in the steps. But now recognize that we’re worth being forgiven too. That we believe that it’s time for us to be forgiven. Cuz you can’t actually go out there and ask people, um, for forgiveness unless you really truly believe that that’s the right thing for them to do.

Speaker 1 00:12:03 But you gotta get past the, the struggle that you have with yourself first, you know, is, is recognizing that, um, you’ve made a lot of mistakes that hurt your future, that hurt your career, that hurt relationships. And you need to let that go in your own life so that you can move forward so that you can move forward with dignity and hang your head, uh, high knowing that God has forgiven you and that you’re still worthy and you’re valuable and you can be useful and you’ve got a, a bright future ahead. If you can’t believe that about yourself, then I don’t see how a person can go and ask for forgiveness for other, from other people. And, you know, one of the verses that I have on this lesson is, is Romans five, eight. It says, but God shows his love for us. That in that while we were still sinners, Christ came and died for us.

Speaker 1 00:12:56 And so the point is, is we’re worth being forgiven. You know, again, this comes back to the gospel. God saw, saw that it, saw that it was, that we were worth him coming down, stepping off the throne, stepping into humanity, and being the sacrifice for all of the ugly sins that we committed against ourselves and against every other person. And against him, he thought that we’re worth it to come and die for us. And so that should instill now this confidence that, okay, if God says I’m worth being forgiven than I am now I can make this list. Now I can go out and start to ask for forgiveness from other people.

Speaker 2 00:13:42 What about the person who, who hears all that Eric, but they still just have a hard time believing they still have a hard time forgiving themselves. Hmm. Would you still encourage that person to go out and make amends with other people?

Speaker 1 00:13:59 Yeah. I, I don’t think anything has to be like, in perfect order. Some of this stuff is kind of linear. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, and it doesn’t always work exactly how you want it to work. It’s, it’s messier than when what, what, what what we put on paper. Um, and so when you have the opportunity and the opportunity presents itself, and you don’t have full confidence, well, you know, confidence is just another word for faith and trust. Right? And so you don’t have at all, you know, a hundred percent perfect confidence about everything there. There’s still insecurity that will remain with us for the rest of our lives, um, about some of the stuff that we’ve done. But sometimes this step of, you know, going to make an amends is a step of faith, believing that this is going to do good for me and for the other person. And so, in any kind of exercise in confidence, trust, faith, there’s always some sort of a risk mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would say.

Speaker 2 00:14:59 Yeah. And I think that the person who feels that way, who has a hard time forgiving himself or herself, m my my guess is if you, if you go out there and start doing this in the next step, then you’ll find at least some of those people are gonna forgive you. You might have some that don’t forgive you. You might have some that hold onto that bitterness, which is really only gonna hurt themselves, but there are probably gonna be others who forgi you might be even surprised who does, but who forgive you. And you’ll see that that’s part of the solution to unlocking the ability to really, truly forgive yourself.

Speaker 3 00:15:38 Yeah. I think you, you generally do end up being surprised by the people who do forgive you, and sometimes by the people who don’t. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, like Eric was talking about this is, it’s kind of this, this confidence, this faith in, you know, that we are forgiven, that we are worthy of forgiveness from our heavenly father. And that does, you know, that’s, that’s always gonna <laugh>, we’re always gonna kind of struggle with that, but we take this, we, we do continue to take this step anyways. And one other thing I wanna say about this is, you know, these steps, we’re gonna, as we’re gonna learn as we continue to go through these, that, um, this isn’t a one-time thing. This is actually a lifestyle now. And, and so there might be people that, you know, we’re ready to make amends to. Maybe there are people that we’re not, but we’re not gonna wait until we’re ready to make amends to every single person before we go make amends to the first person. Ooh, that’s good. Right? Like, otherwise I might never make amends to anybody. Mm-hmm. So, so just because I’m not feeling ready to make amends to somebody, um, yet, um, I shouldn’t hold off on the people that, that I am ready to make amends to.

Speaker 1 00:16:55 Yeah. And here’s the thing about this also is that we, as we’re getting closer to this, you know, making a list of people that we wanna make amends to and we’re forgiven ourselves, um, we’ve now got to examine our own hearts and see are there any people out there that we’re harboring any bitterness towards as well? Because again, we’re gonna be a hypocrite if we’re going to seek amends and forgiveness from other people. But yet we’ve got unforgiveness in our lives because, you know, the truth is about addicts, um, is that a lot of us kind of were led into our addiction or made a lot of bad choices, uh, due to some negative and bad things that happened in our lives that we had no control over. You know, there’s been so many people that have been abused, been, uh, you know, emotionally sexually, um, physically abused, you know, grew, grew up in, in maybe unhealthy homes and situations, bad relationships.

Speaker 1 00:17:56 All of these things have led to the unhealthy lifestyles that we had. Um, and so bitterness, as we probably discovered in one, in our inventory, might be one of those triggers that we have one of those things that causes us to stay sick. Right? And there’s probably people that have done things to us in our past. And so again, part of becoming willing is first humbling ourselves and saying, okay, God forgave me. I’m worth being forgiven. Um, but now, before I go and start asking for forgiveness, am I a hypocrite? Do I need to forgive the person that harmed me way in my past? You know?

Speaker 2 00:18:41 But do you have, Eric, do you have to wait for that person to ask for forgiveness to forgive them?

Speaker 1 00:18:47 No, not at all. Again, this is about cleaning our side of the street. And so, actually, I’ll tell you a story. There was, uh, a person in my life that, um, abused me while I was younger. And then this person ended up, um, totally unrelated being, you know, locked up in prison. And I heard about it, you know, later on in life. And I was going through kind of intensive outpatient treatment for my addiction as a teenager. And I needed to deal with this issue that I had actually never really talked to anybody about in, in any length of time until I got a, a counselor, um, in recovery. And his, his, uh, idea for me to, you know, somehow make amends or let go of this, let go and let God, you know, was one of the sayings was to write a letter, um, explaining, Hey, this is all the stuff that I remember happened, but here’s what’s going on in my life.

Speaker 1 00:19:51 You know, God’s changing me. Um, I, I’ve been stuck in addiction as I think that you have been, but I’ve started to find victory in Christ, and I’m getting help. And I want you to know, and I wrote this in this letter, I want you to know that I forgive you, I forgive you for everything that you’ve done. But, so that was, there’s no but to the forgiveness, but the, the, I didn’t actually feel comfortable sending the letter into prison or anything. Hmm. And so what this, what my counselor’s suggestion was, and this is a common thing I think that people do, is we attached it to a balloon, a helium balloon. Hmm. And, and when we had written this letter and sealed it up, uh, we just let it go. You know, we let it go. And I was able to get things off of my chest, bitterness that I was harboring pain that I had, um, and forgiveness that I needed to give.

Speaker 1 00:20:49 Now, he might not know about it. I think I’ve seen the guy around, you know, over the years or whatever. I think he’s in and outta prison. But, um, but the healing that happened in my life, because I did that, was just remarkable. I can’t even, um, I, I can’t explain how wonderful that is, to let go of burdens of, of things that you’re holding against people. And this is where it’s a good lesson for family members and friends. Like, learn to let, like bitterness only hurts you, um, you know, the most. And so we’ve gotta learn to forgive these people, and especially for the addict, we’ve gotta get rid of this stuff. Forgive these people. And you know, you, you never know whose backyard that landed in and how weird they thought that letter was.

Speaker 2 00:21:38 <laugh>.

Speaker 1 00:21:39 I was trying to

Speaker 2 00:21:39 Visualize that too. <laugh> it floats into some kids’ backyard. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:21:43 <laugh>. It was, it was, but that was, um, you know, I actually tell people to do that, um, even now, like, if, if, if it’s a situation where you don’t know where the person is mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you haven’t heard from them, or if it’s a dangerous situation or whatever, um, there are some things that you just gotta let go give it to God. And that was like a, a really cool visual way, tangible, practical way that I could let go of some unforgiveness that I

Speaker 2 00:22:11 Had. So let’s follow that story into another scenario. What, how would it have been for you if he would’ve actually come to you and asked for forgiveness? Would that see what I’m saying? Because that’s what we’re telling the addict to do, is don’t be the guy that’s just in and out of prison who never makes amends, which this guy was for you, Eric, but you, by the grace of God, you were able to release it, like the visual of the bloon, you were able to release it and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it hasn’t followed you in your life. Praise God for that. But what we’re saying now is if you were that guy in essence mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you hurt somebody, you, your actions, your addiction, whatever, you, it, it caused damage in other people’s lives. What we’re saying is you be proactive and go to those people and ask for forgiveness, because not everyone’s gonna have a counselor working through that. Like, you, you were fortunate enough to have that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, in essence, what I’m getting from your story, Eric, is you didn’t need the guy to come to you in order for you to forgive him. But there are a lot of people out there who won’t ever get to that point. So you are making amends. Your willingness to make amends is what’s gonna really, hopefully unlock this freedom from bitterness and, and this stuff that can follow you around forever.

Speaker 1 00:23:39 I agree. I think that a lot of people might be shocked that we finally came to our, our senses and wanted to Yeah. Uh, ask for forgiveness to own up to some of the things that we did. It could be life-changing in another person’s life. You never know how much bitterness a person’s holding that maybe they’re in some kind of chaotic lifestyle that was sent into a, you know, downward spiral because of the things that we did to people. Yeah. You know? And so it’s the right thing to do, and, and we are becoming moral people. We’re, we’re becoming righteous people that want to do the right thing, because that’s how God wants his people to live. And so ultimately, we’re trying to live above reproach. Now we’re trying to do the honorable and noble thing so that we can have peace of mind so that our conscience is no longer, uh, just bother us to the point where we think we have to self-medicate. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:24:41 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, and also so that you can break the cycle for the next person mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right. So that you can, you can say it’s, it’s gonna stop here. Because I would imagine, guys, you’ve probably seen this, a lot of the addiction that you see is generational addiction. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it just keeps, it keeps cycling through to the next generation because people aren’t handling relationships. Right. They don’t know how to say, I’m sorry, mark. I like what you said, that it’s really a lifestyle. It’s not a one time thing. It’s, this is how I’m gonna be from here on out. I am going to be someone who humbles myself and goes to someone when I hurt them, and I’m gonna apologize. I’m gonna own it. And then that’s, that’s gonna again, hopefully break that cycle for the next person, be it your spouse or your kid or whatever.

Speaker 3 00:25:32 Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s really, I mean, this is, this can be life changing for sure. You know, you talk about, like, what you were talking about, Eric, I mean that for you personally, it’s something that just, it, it changes your outlook. It changes the way that you’re able to interact with people. Because any kind of bitterness that I’m holding against somebody, it’s funny how it ends up impacting all of my relationships. There’s just this, this lack of trust, this lack of, you know, fully investing in relationships because of these broken relationships that I have. And I know for me, yeah. You talk about it being generational and we wanna break the cycle. I, I know for me personally, yeah. It, it was generational. And you know, there’s, I, I know that, you know, my mom, uh, had a lot of, a lot of hurt and pain from her childhood.

Speaker 3 00:26:29 And she, you know, she, she knows as well that, um, she wasn’t the best mom growing up. Um, she had a lot of addiction issues herself. And so when I did this, this step with her, um, actually, actually the step nine of actually going and making amends mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was twofold. It was forgiving her for the ways that she’d hurt me, but it was also, um, seeking forgiveness for the bitterness that I’d held against her. You know? And, and this is just one of those things that, you know, once we can start to get into this practice, man, I can start to do that in all of my relationships and be able to confront that bitterness and that unforgiveness that I hold onto. And now, now I don’t want that anymore. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, now I, now, you know, the spirit in me that lives in me now is convicted every time I’m feeling any of that. And so now I want to handle that stuff. I want to go and I want to forgive, and I want to seek forgiveness. And so yeah, it’s a lifestyle change, and it breaks that cycle that you’re talking about.

Speaker 2 00:27:29 Mark, can I ask with your, with your mom, how did that, was that hard? Was that a hard one? Was, was she receptive to that? Or did it take a few tries?
Speaker 3 00:27:39 Um, I think that it’s, it’s kind of difficult. I think she’s still struggling. She’s still struggling to forgive herself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I know that much. Um, and so I, I’m not sure how much she really believes that I’ve forgiven her. Um, but she does see something, she sees a change, she sees a difference. And, um, I, I’ve kind of been discipling her a little bit here and there. Um, but it’s just, you know, she, she is where she’s at and yeah. It’s, it’s really hard to say.

Speaker 2 00:28:11 Yeah. So much of this really is a spiritual thing. It’s, it’s, there’s a, it’s kind of like spiritual. Your eyes have to be open to faith, and I think your eyes in, in a similar way, have to be open to God’s love and forgiveness and restoration. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because we, everyone, we all have this voice in our head that just says, I think we said this last time, I’m not worthy. Uh, you know, God could never receive me back. He could never forgive me. And so the sad thing is, and that becomes just, that feeds into that cycle,

Speaker 3 00:28:44 Right? Yeah. That’s how we, that’s how we relate to other people now. Right? If we, if we look at ourselves that way, then we, we certainly don’t look at other people as being worthy of forgiveness either. And that actually, you know, that, that, that’s, that’s trying to break that chain. And once we, for me, when I was, when I was so broken, and I came face to face with everything I’d done, and I, and I accepted that forgiveness, that changed the way that I looked at everybody else, that changed the way that I looked at people that had hurt me in my life, because, man, look how much I’d been forgiven for from God, man. How can I not go and forgive people too?

Speaker 1 00:29:22 Yeah. And so this goes to show that God saved us for a purpose. I think we talked about that. Um, I think it’s in Ephesians two, eight through 10, I, we talked about that a few weeks ago, that he saved us. He cleaned us up for a purpose. Now we are like walking gospel stories, walking testimonies, to now all of these people that we’ve harmed, uh, we’re going around saying, look, I’ve been forgiven. Look, I know I was wrong. You know, like that’s a miracle in and of itself, <laugh>. Yeah. Like, I think, you know, for most parents and people that you’ve harmed, like, oh my gosh, they, they admit that they’re wrong. Yeah. Right? And, and you’re going and you’re telling them, look, my life’s changed now, and I want to admit to you all this wrong stuff that I did, but guess what? God loves me and he forgives me.

Speaker 1 00:30:14 And I hope that you can too one day. But even if you don’t, I still am gonna hang my head high knowing that I’ve cleaned my side of the street. That’s really what this lesson mm-hmm. <affirmative> is all about. Um, but you would be amazed at how people, uh, respond to humility. And that’s one of the major themes throughout all of these steps, again, for an addict. And I’m, I’m pretty, pretty, uh, harsh with people that struggle with humility in, in recovery. I’m pretty direct about it because without humility, we can’t see ourselves. Humility is like being blinded. You know? We can’t see our own faults. We only see ’em in other people. And so, while I, I may not be perfect, and I still struggle with pride. One thing I do know is I walk around telling everybody a lot of my faults too. You know, I, I give myself praises and stuff like that, but I like to talk about my faults.

Speaker 1 00:31:12 It’s one of those things that, uh, has just happened to me because of recovery. I can, my wife will admit it. She’s like, you’re really good at like right off of the bat admitting that you were wrong and saying you’re sorry. You know, my problem is, is, you know, not doing it again, <laugh>, but, and that’s where I need to grow. But at least I can get to the point where I’m like, you know what? I’ve, what I’ve done is wrong. And another thing about this step, because it’s been so ingrained in me, I’ve gone over the steps so many times. It’s like, like what you said, when we, when we have a rift in a relationship, or things aren’t right, because I’ve done something or, or, you know, some kind of, uh, conflict has come up, I, I have become almost frantic about solving the problem.

Speaker 1 00:31:58 I’m like, oh, we gotta deal with this right now because I can’t move on. I can’t work. I can’t do anything. You know, it’s like, I’m sorry, please. You’ve gotta forgive me. I’m holding onto their coattails. We’ve gotta make this right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I love that peace, that peace when everybody loves everyone and everybody, um, is good with me. Um, because I, I’m still an insecure person when I know that everybody’s good with me, it gives me the confidence, you know, to go out into the world and, you know, take charge and do what I gotta do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> when everybody’s good with me. But if there’s some conflict, oh man, it still bothers me. <laugh>. Yeah. It really does. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:32:37 I appreciate that, that about you, Eric. And I think that is part of what makes you such a healthy person that for some people listening, that’s so foreign to them to think about, um, making, making it a lifestyle of we’re going to be reconciled. Mm-hmm. I want, I need re it’s like reconciliation is the air I breathe. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I need reconciliation. I don’t want to be, I don’t want to be at enmity. I don’t want to be at war with somebody else. A lot of, a lot of people listening to this don’t even know what that feels like to have peace with people as a rule, because the rule in their life is enmity. The rule in their life is there’s just always something hanging over it. You just, you don’t ever feel right with someone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that is part of, part of, again, the cycle that Satan wants to get us in is to feel like it’s, there’s no hope.

Speaker 2 00:33:29 This can’t, what you just described can never be me, but I would encourage people out there, it can be you, you can make this a lifestyle and it’ll change your life and it’ll change your relationships, everyone around you. Mm-hmm. One of the topics in our library that I pulled up, and we’ll put a link to this below the resources for today’s topic on pursue, God, it’s called four roadblocks to an Apology. Mm-hmm. And I, I just thought I’d read through these four real quick. People can watch the full video and have the conversation if they want to just search for apology on pursue god.org, number one, roadblock. Number one, you don’t feel like you did anything wrong. Now, I think we’ve already gotten past that roadblock. We’ve spent, what, eight weeks now, <laugh>.

Speaker 3 00:34:11 Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:34:12 Trying to get past that roadblock. Number two, you feel like the other person was totally at fault. That’s a roadblock for some people. And I, and I think we’ve kind of covered some of that too, that it is true that, that there maybe some people did some things to you that, that may have led to the, your addiction, but that’s, you can still mark your example with your mom with such a great one. You can still apologize for your stuff mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then forgive them for their stuff. Number three, apologizing makes you weak. Hmm. Some people don’t apologize because they feel like it’s a sign of weakness. And again, I think we’ve covered this, that Yeah, it is. And you are weak <laugh>. You, you are, that’s the point. Humble yourself, become weak. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> be, become vulnerable. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and that, that’s part of the, that’s part of the solution. But this last one, I just want, I want you guys to address this last one, the road, the roadblock. Number four is, some people say, what’s the point if I’m going to fail again? What would you say to the person who’s listening to this saying, I’m, I want to make my list, but before I get to next week’s topic, which is where you actually go out and do it, I just don’t know because I feel like if I apologize and then I fail again, then that apology wasn’t legitimate.

Speaker 3 00:35:33 Well, I think what it comes down to is, are you willing to make an effort? Right. I mean, it’s not really making amends if I’m just apologizing and planning on doing nothing to try to change, to try to improve. Um, but I am, you know, if I’m making amends, uh, real amends, that means that I’m actually trying to change. I’m trying to improve this. I’m trying to not do this again. And it’s not to say that we’re not gonna make mistakes. Not to say that we’re not gonna have hiccups and, and, um, you know, trip up and, and, and, yeah. Maybe, possibly fail again. But if the person that we’re making amends to seize and knows that that’s not our intent, that we are trying to make this right, that we’re trying to improve, that we’re trying to grow, then I think the, those amends are legitimate.

Speaker 1 00:36:32 Yeah. You know, I got this picture in my head. I’m gonna ask a really kind of a weird question, but have you ever seen one of those, like little music box things or a little globe thing that has that little ballerina that spins around in it and it, you wind it up and it spins in circles, and then the ballerina kind of spins and circles and does these weird movements back and forth, back and forth. That reminds me of what the life is like, you know, as a Christian with God in repentance. Um, if you think about the word repentance, we’ve talked about this lately. It’s, it’s, it’s turning around, it’s changing your mind, but it’s also turning, turning around. And I think that the Christian life looks like a ballerina because you’re constantly turning, turning and turning and turning and turning because you’ve messed up so many times.

Speaker 1 00:37:24 Because the, the reality is, is we’re never gonna reach perfection. Um, recovery’s all about progress, not perfection. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so we’re gonna need to live a life in constant repentance, in constant asking for forgiveness from people around us and ultimately to God. And so the point of it is, is to clean our side of the street and have the hope and faith that we can start to do it less and less and less as we continue to work at it as we continue to work at it. But as long as our heart’s in, in the right place, and we’re doing it not just to get outta trouble, but to try to make things right. Eventually, I believe God’s gonna honor our heart and help us get past all of our temptations. And ultimately that’s the, our goal is we want to be more like him and less like us. And that’s where we’re headed. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 00:38:19 <affirmative>, let’s finish with the story from the Old Testament. A character that I think can relate to this topic. And he wasn’t perfect, but he was pretty good at apologizing. And we have it on record cuz we have it in the Bible, right? Psalm 51, and encourage people to go read that. Go home and read Psalm 51, make that part of your step eight is to read this psalm that Dave King David wrote after he really screwed up big time. And I would say, would you guys agree that David screwed up more than probably anyone listening right now? I would imagine. What did, what did King David do? What, what, what, what were the, the, uh, mistakes that he made that led up to his writing? The famous Psalm 51 tell the story.

Speaker 3 00:39:07 Well, um, David saw the Bathsheba right. Bathing on the rooftop, and he, he desired her. He wanted to have her, and so he did. And, and so she ends up becoming pregnant. And so to hide his mistake, he brings back Uriah, her husband, um, who was out fighting battles for King David. Right. Brings him back to the city so that he’ll sleep with his wife and he can kind of hide his sin. Well, Uriah being the upstanding guy that he was refused while his men are out there fighting to go and sleep with his wife. So he sleeps outside the walls of the city. Um, and so David’s left with, he thinks no other option than to have Uriah killed. So he sends him out to the front lines, um, and they order, um, everybody else to pull back but him, and he’s killed by the enemy.

Speaker 3 00:40:05 Um, and even after all this, I can’t even imagined the, the guilt and everything that he was, that he was just weighed down by, but it, it took the prophet Nathan to come and confront him mm-hmm. <affirmative> about this. Um, and, but, you know, a lot of times it’s funny because that’s kind of how it is for a lot of us addicts too, is all the horrible things that we’ve done, it takes getting caught because we just don’t have the courage to bring it up on our own. And that’s what happened with David. Um, yeah. And so, yeah, so he’s confronted by Nathan and he admits to it and he recognizes his grief and, and he just, I think he just, I mean, he’s overcome with, with sorrow, with what he did.

Speaker 1 00:40:47 This is the wonderful thing about the Bible for maybe some of you guys who are listening and you’re not necessarily religious. I I think hopefully this enlightens you. What I’ve discovered when I first started reading the Bible for myself was that this book is full of messed up people. That God changes their lives and, and through humble submission to the Lord, um, you know, great things happen. And the story of David is just one of many examples of a person who was a great sinner who’d done a lot of things, but God uses in a mighty way. He’s, he’s an adulterer and he’s a murderer.

Speaker 3 00:41:29 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:41:30 Yeah. And again, I, I don’t, Ima I can’t imagine, I don’t know anyone who had, who, who essentially murdered another person’s husband to cover up your adultery. I don’t personally, maybe you guys know Pete, maybe you hang out with people like that, but I don’t know anybody like that. So I don’t honestly don’t know anybody who has, who has sinned. So grievously as King David sinned, and yet in the Bible after this happened, God himself calls King David a man after his own heart. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which I’ll be honest with you, when I think about it, it bugs me. Like when the, when my flesh thinks about it, it bugs me. Because if that was my daughter or my son, he did that to, I don’t know, honestly, guys, I don’t know if I could forgive someone like King David for what he did, but God forgave him.

Speaker 2 00:42:23 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and some people have a problem with that kind of a God. But those are, to me, those are self-righteous people. And I’m admitting that I’m, I tend toward being self-righteous and I have to, this story for me, even Mark as you told that story just was such a great reminder to me, man, what a, what a low thing that he did. What a scumbag thing that he did. But in spite of all that, and, and like you said, Eric, he didn’t even come clean with it until finally the prophet Nathan called him out. Then he finally ca so it’s like, strike one, strike two, strike three, and I’m a baseball guy, three strikes, and you’re out in my book. But he wasn’t, God restored him. God redeemed him. God still used him because I what we’re talking about here, because there’s no other thing we can point to, but that he humbled himself and, and he finally did. It’s never too late to say, I’m sorry I was wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. That was my bad.

Speaker 1 00:43:17 Yeah. And, and so the, what he said in Psalm 51, which was like, uh, you know, David wrote a lot of the psalms or songs and poems, you know, one of the things that he said was in Psalm 51 versus three and four, for I know my transgressions and my sin is ever before me against you, and you only have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight. And he’s talking to God in this. He’s pouring his heart out to God, first and foremost, saying, you know what, I’ve, I’ve messed up. I’ve sinned. And this is just an, you know, I think amends is just another way of, of repenting, you know? And so we get a great example of that in the Bible in this story through David just repenting and turning, recognizing and humbling himself, um, and asking for forgiveness. And I think that’s what’s gonna, that’s what it’s gonna look like in a lot of our lives, you know? And, um, God responded to him as, you know, with favor and, and and has restored him. And we don’t know if every human being’s gonna do that in, in this, this case in our lives. But we can know that first and foremost, God did, he did restore us. He does love us. He has forgiven us. Um, and then we can, can go out with confidence knowing that other people may be surprised when we come to them and are humble.

Speaker 2 00:44:41 Mark, let’s finish with, uh, just one more time. What is step number eight toward recovery?

Speaker 3 00:44:46 Uh, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

Speaker 2 00:44:51 So if you wanna talk about this and want resources, we’ve got a video for this discussion. Questions, we’ve got all kinds of resources available at pursue, God do pursue god.org/recovery. This is topic number eight. And then we encourage you to join us next week for topic number nine, where we’re fi as we’re finally gonna do something, guys, <laugh> in topic. Finally. Yeah. We’re gonna actually do, we’re gonna not just make the list now, we’re gonna actually make amends and next week we’re gonna also share with you the five apology languages. Because I think it’ll be really good for people to understand that not everyone receives an apology the same way. There’s different ways people receive apologies. And we’re gonna, as, as part of our conversation next week, we’re gonna cover that, give you, give you guys some real practical insights on how to make amends. So join us next time.