Step 9 Toward Recovery | Spiritual Maturity and Emotional Intelligence

Speaker 2 00:00:03 Well, hey everybody. Welcome to the Pursue God podcast. I’m Pastor Brian, joined in the studio by Pastor Mark, pastor Eric. Guys, we are on the Road to Recovery. Step number nine, today is what we’re gonna be talking about. Last week was a great conversation on step eight and making a list about making amends with people, but we weren’t actually doing anything yet, even though we talked a lot about what to do last time. Uh, it’s almost like part two of a two part, uh, little mini lesson, right? And so why don’t we start at mark by reading step number nine on the Road to Recovery, and then let’s dive into some scripture. Let’s talk about it.
Speaker 3 00:00:43 Okay? Yeah. Step nine says, made direct amends to such people wherever possible except when to do so would injure them or others.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Yeah. So this is again, like what you said, Brian, get actually going out and making the amends before Last, last step was about making the plan and who, who all we’ve hurt and kind of writing that down on a list and peripherally seeking humility, um, to be able to go and, and, and, and really admit who, who we have wrong. But now it’s, now we’re gonna do it. Um, we’re gonna go out and make amends, say sorry, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we’re gonna try to even possibly make restitution if we can. Um, but keeping in mind that last part of that sentence, except when to do so, would injure them or others. And I think we’ll talk about when, when it would be appropriate and when it’s not appropriate to, you know, go find people from the past.
Speaker 2 00:01:43 Yeah. One of the other things we’re gonna be talking about at the end of the podcast, so make sure to listen all the way to the end, because we’re gonna talk about the five apology languages. I think that’s a real practical application to the, to today’s topic. You know, there was, there was a book years ago that most of us have read for our marriages about the five love languages. A whole idea there is that everybody has a love language, one or two love languages, the way that they receive love. And the whole idea is that you need, you better know your spouse’s love language because it might be different from yours. And if you just love them in your love language, they’re not gonna feel loved. So you need to learn to love them in their love language. Well, I think it was the same authors that came up with an apology language book that has the same basic idea.
Speaker 2 00:02:26 Everyone has an apology language the way that you receive an apology. And if you’re not aware of those apology languages, then you might not be doing it. Right. Essentially, you might not be apologizing to them in a way that they can receive. So, at the end of today’s podcast, we’re gonna go over those five apology languages and really help people to think about how to say sorry, because there’s more than one way to do it. But before we do that, I just, can I just admit that I’m, you know, I’ve made fun of you guys for eight weeks now that there’s a lot of talk, a lot of this recovery stuff is talk. Maybe I’m being hard on, on recovery, guys. A lot of this is talk and preparation. I guess I shouldn’t joke about it because that’s true. You really have to do some work on the inside first. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But finally, guys, we’re actually doing something. <laugh>, we’re actually going out, because if you ask me, talk is cheap. We better put this recovery into action.
Speaker 1 00:03:22 Yeah. I think that, you know, when we were writing this lesson, um, what came to mind was, James, you know, the book of James, the famous verse says, faith without Works is dead. And actually, in the big book of aa, they actually quote that surprisingly, you know, they quote that Faith without works is dead. Um, and so the reality is, is if we’re going to, you know, go around and, you know, we’ve had this spiritual awakening and we’ve, we’ve got this higher power, who is the God of the Bible and all the work that we have done up into this point, the changing from the inside out, our new faith, okay? As Christians, if we’re gonna go now, run around and, and say, I have, I’m a Christian now, my life has changed, I’m better. I’m no longer doing all those things. Um, if, if we’re gonna just say that, but our life hasn’t changed, if we haven’t tried to do anything to make some of those things right, we still have these people in our lives that, that we’ve hurt, and they haven’t got to experience any of the, any of the benefit of our life change, then what good is that?
Speaker 1 00:04:30 Right? That’s gonna turn a lot of people off. I think that actually turns people off to Christianity a lot. Wouldn’t you guys say, you know, like, you know, some, somebody comes to the Lord and and gets saved, and, and some people are like, well, this person thinks that they’re just forgiven by God. And so automatically everybody else forgives them for what they did, and, um, they think they can get off that easy, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 3 00:04:54 Yeah. Yeah. We still have the consequences of our actions, right? And, and the greatest consequences that we’ve had as addicts are the relationships that we’ve, that we’ve damaged. And I think this is, you know, like Brian, you were talking about making fun of us for taking so long to get to this, this point where we’re, you know, actually doing something visible to other people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is the step where we really are doing something that that is visible to other people. And I think it, it really is such a big deal. Um, and that’s why, you know, it, it, it takes a lot of preparation. It takes a lot of humility, it takes a lot of, um, just gaining some of that strength from the Lord to be able to do this step. And so that’s why I think it’s broken up into these two steps, eight and nine, because this is a hard step. It really is. And it takes some preparation. It takes, um, doing it right the first time as well, right? Making sure we’ve really narrowed down on the people we need to make amends to, um, and knowing how to make amends as well. Like, we’re gonna talk about those apology languages later. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:06:07 <affirmative>. Yeah. Let’s go to some scripture. Luke chapter 19, verse eight. This is from the extra spiritual version. I mean, sorry, the English standard version.
Speaker 1 00:06:15 I like to call it the Eric Standard version.
Speaker 2 00:06:18 <laugh>. Okay? It’s the version that sometimes is a little harder to understand, but it’s still a good version. Okay? It says this, ZK stood and said to the Lord, to Jesus, behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I’ve defrauded any one of anything, I restore it fourfold. Right? So here’s a guy who was a tax collector, right? So he probably defrauded a lot of people, and, but yet he, now he’s coming to Jesus. So this is sort of his come to literally his come to Jesus moment. And Jesus said to him in verse nine, today’s salvation has come to this house since he is also a son of Abraham. Now, that doesn’t mean by the way that Jesus is saying we’re saved by our works, that, that Zak Zakia was saved because he did these works. What what I think is happening here, if you let scripture interpret scripture, is Jesus recognized there was genuine heart change in Z Zakia to the point that he wanted to do something about it. And that’s what’s happening here, right? After nine weeks of this, there’s genuine heart change in the people who are still listening, who are still working, who are still moving forward. So this step isn’t gonna save you, and it might not even save the relationship because you can only do your thing. You can’t, you can’t necessarily decide if reconciliation is gonna happen. You can only do what’s, what’s your job to do. But, but there’s something about the action that proves what’s going on on the inside.
Speaker 1 00:07:46 Yeah. I like to call it, it’s the evidence of our faith. And that’s what I really believe that James was getting to, um, when he said Faith without works is dead. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s saying that you can say that you have all this faith. You can run around and say that you’re a Christian and your life’s been changed, and you’re a different person now. But if fruit isn’t coming out of your life, if, if there isn’t an honest and earnest desire to want to go and do good, um, if you’re not compelled to wanna follow God’s way, the Jesus way, if you’re not compelled to wanna, um, love, love God and love others, then something’s wrong. You know? So those are called works, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but faith comes before works, but then we prove our faith by our works. And in this instance, if we have true remorse and true, um, evidence of the spirit in our lives, we’re gonna want to go and say, you know what?
Speaker 1 00:08:46 I have, you know, that’s what repentance is, is, is, is changing our mind going, we’ve talked about that a lot on this podcast, is going God’s way instead of my way admitting and agreeing with God that I’m a sinner, and that I need to change, that I need to go God’s way. Right? And God’s way would say, we should definitely go ask for forgiveness. We should definitely go reconcile with people who, who might have, uh, something against us. You know, God’s all about reconciliation, and so that should be a, a just a natural desire that comes out of us as we’re growing in our faith.
Speaker 3 00:09:24 Yeah. I think that’s exactly what it is. It’s that evidence of the changes in us, right? I like, um, you know, Eric, you’re always using like Jim references, right? And, um, I, I think about this as, you know, somebody saying, well, I, you know, now I’m, I’m this different person who, who exercises all the time, but, and I go to the gym every single day, <laugh>. And if they’re still, if you’re not seeing physical changes,
Speaker 2 00:09:50 <laugh>, that’s good.
Speaker 3 00:09:50 Uh, and this person, especially
Speaker 1 00:09:52 If they skipped leg day.
Speaker 3 00:09:54 Exactly. Yeah. You’re gonna know, right? And you, and you know, the people who skip leg day for sure. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:10:02 That’s good. Yeah. You show it, prove it, show it. I wanna see it. I wanna see the evidence of it. Yeah. That’s good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, okay, so, and we talked about this this last week quite a bit. Eric, you, you said this multiple times last week. Remember, you can only clean your side of the street. So don’t expect that when you do this step, when you go and make amends, when you go and actually have these conversations and apologize to people, don’t expect that all they’re gonna hug it out and they’re go, oh, this is great. Everything’s all good. Because some of them might, might be, might hold bitterness mm-hmm. <affirmative>, in fact, maybe, maybe when you look at your list, you can, you can put an asterisk on the names that you think aren’t gonna receive it. So does that mean guys, that you shouldn’t go to those, to those people on the list that you’ve asterisk?
Speaker 3 00:10:52 No, because the, the, so the main part of this, the, the, the, the main goal of this is for ourselves, really. And, and I mean, that sounds selfish, but really it is for an addict. The, the, the biggest part of this is to, like, it says, clean your side of the street to do what you can to, to make things right, to write the wrongs that you’ve committed. Um, and so it becomes more about, about myself doing what I can, um, for my own peace of mind, um, and to live out the life that God’s led me to live out now. Um, and, but, you know, we do, the goal is hopefully in the end for those relationships to be repaired, but that’s not the main goal. That’s it. It’s, it’s hopefully a benefit that comes out of it, wouldn’t you say?
Speaker 1 00:11:44 Yeah. Yeah. It is. And I, I think that this, you know, kind of echoes the serenity prayer again, I think that gets brought up a lot throughout all these steps, but just, this is kind of saying we don’t have control over how other people react. We only have control over the way that the way we, we come and deal with the conflict that we might have with a person. And I think that that also will bring up the idea of this emotional intelligence. We’ll talk about this a little bit this time, and then later in, in the next step, just the ability to be able to read situations, have empathy for people, uh, see where people are at emotionally, spiritually, and, and deal with it accordingly, right? And so in this situation, we, we’ve grown in faith. Now, we might be going and making amends to people that aren’t where we’re at spiritually.
Speaker 1 00:12:40 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, they might even not be believers. And so we can’t expect that they would have the forgiveness of Jesus, you know, the maturity and forgiveness of Jesus to be, and the, the emotional capacity to be able to just lay things down and let ’em go. Although we know that that’s a biblical thing. And so we go out there, you know, especially to the Christians in our life that we’ve harmed and, and we go saying, Hey, I know that hopefully God will help convict them, that they should forgive me. But, but we’ve gotta be humble enough to say, well, maybe they’re not gonna be able to handle it, and that’s okay. Maybe they’re still stuck in bitterness and they’re not where I’m at spiritually, or they’re not ready yet, and I can’t expect that from people. What I gotta do is make sure that I do my part, I clean my side of the street.
Speaker 1 00:13:32 That’s all I have control over. So, however they react is not something that I can control. Um, we should certainly try to come with, with humility to a person. And you’d be surprised when you come to a person in humility, willing to admit your wrongs and faults. Uh, a lot of times people are gonna be softened by that. Right? And again, we’ve gotta, we’ve gotta go in faith doing that. But cleaning our side of the street isn’t so much for, again, making amends isn’t so much for, um, the other person, um, as much as it is is for us actually, right? We’ve got all this dirt that we’ve gotta get, the, the guilt and the shame and, uh, the things that we’ve gotta make right for our own heart so that we can have a clean conscience. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:14:25 Scripture says, as much as it is up to you, do everything you can to be at peace with other people. I love that because it says you can’t, like you said, Eric, you can’t control someone else’s response. I mean, remember, you’ve been going through this process for weeks, maybe months. That other person is include, probably clued into that they haven’t been thinking about this and making lists and processing. So recognize that you need to, you might need to kind of catch them up to where you are and where the journey has brought you. It might take them some time to get to that same place. It might take weeks or months or years to get to the place where they can really, genuinely forgive you. That’s not even the point. The point is, as much as is, as it up to, as it is up to you, try to be reconciled.
Speaker 2 00:15:08 Jesus talks about reconciliation in Matthew five. He says in verse 23, if you’re offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go first be reconciled your brother, and then come and offer your gift. You know, I’ve read this passage for years, and I’ve nev until recently, I never really fully grasped what Jesus was saying here. He’s, the context for this in Matthew five is anger. He says, look, if you’re angry at someone, here’s how you should handle it. And what’s interesting is then he flips the script in his example. He does, in his example, he doesn’t say that you are angry at someone because they did something wrong to you. No, he says, you’re angry at someone, but you are, you are the perpetrator, not the victim. So they actually have something against you. And what I love about this is you are the one, you know, they have something against you, and you are the one going and reconciling. How perfect is that for today’s topic is you recog they haven’t even asked for forgiveness necessarily, but you’re gonna go ask cuz you know that you’ve done something to offend them. And so Jesus says, you need to go do it. You need to go clean your side of the street.
Speaker 3 00:16:17 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s what this really is. It’s being, it’s taking responsibility for that, right? We, and, and this whole idea of we can’t control other people. <laugh>, you don’t know if they’re ever going to come seek an apology from you. Right. I that just, and really that’s not, uh, natural to most people who have known you, if you are an addict and have lived this life of addiction, that they’re not going to expect you to apologize for much of anything. Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah. It, it, it is, this is, this is a step that is really taking responsibility for your recovery. It’s, it’s showing that I am taking responsibility and ownership for it now.
Speaker 1 00:17:01 Yeah. And I think that those verses actually tie back in well with, you know, the way we started, which is, you know, we have all this religiosity now, which is good. You know, we have this faith, which is good, but yet, um, we can’t hide behind that forever. We’ve actually gotta go out and make things right and do things right, the tangible way of doing things. And, and I, what I see in those verses, uh, where we need to reconcile before, before we go to the altar, um, and then it says, come back after you’ve done that is, Hey, come to God with a clear conscience and clean your side of the street first. Don’t hide behind, um, you know, the forgiveness of God, but never go and do the second thing, which you’re called to do, which is to go love other people. And sometimes that means to go make, make right the wrongs that you’ve done right. And I, so I kind of feel like what’s going on there is if, if people have something against you and, and in, as you’ve been growing in your faith, you don’t go do something about that. Again, something’s, something’s wrong. There’s some maturity that needs to happen there as well. And so hopefully, you know, like it does for me, uh, God’s word would compel and convict all of us to continue to grow spiritually.
Speaker 2 00:18:23 All right. Now, one, one more thing I want to make sure to talk about before we close with the five apology languages and get really practical about this. You guys say, Eric, in the lesson, you say, you must be willing to go to any length
Speaker 2 00:18:37 For victory. And that reminds me again, of something Jesus said in, in Matthew five, in another section, not far from what we just read, where Jesus, he’s, he’s talking about sexual purity and lust, and he says, if your right, if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if your left hand, if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. And he’s, he’s talking about going to any length for victory, taking it seriously. I don’t think he really means to do that, even though I think some monks over in history have actually done, done that. I think he’s, he’s using hyperbole to get us to really pay attention and say, do sell your spare tire in order to get victory in this area. What, what does that look like in terms of making amends?
Speaker 1 00:19:24 Yeah. I think, you know, actually I have a great picture of that analogy is that Jesus wants us all to become pirates, you know, with an eye patch and a hand, a hook for <laugh>. You
Speaker 2 00:19:37 Never thought about that. Yeah. So cap Captain Sparrow is, was following Jesus’ orders, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:19:43 Yeah. Um, yeah, no, you know, exactly what you said is true going to any lengths, which might mean pain. And I think when we think about making amends and going to have to have hard conversations, right? I think for addicts, we have self-medicated and we have used to escape hard conversations and to deal with these issues, right? We’ve, we’ve, that’s been our default. And so now we’re being pushed to a point where it’s kind of a, kind of a dangerous situation, really. I mean, there could be danger of relapse because of the stress thinking about it, the stress of thinking about having to go do something that’s so hard that normally you would just, you know, try to forget
Speaker 2 00:20:30 And medic and self-medicate in
Speaker 1 00:20:31 Self-medicate. Yeah. Um, but if, if we really wanna have victory, then we should be willing to take it to length that we’ve never gone before. I mean, we took it so far in our addiction, we were willing to put all of our zeal and our passion to go, you know, get our fix, whatever, that was our obsession. Um, how much, you know, more could we recover if we took even some of that effort and just put it towards doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:21:07 <affirmative>. Yeah. I think of, you know, this is our, our recovery has, it has to be taken seriously. The, these are like wounds that we have that are infected, right? And it’s not enough to just, you know, peel the bandage off and put a new one on. Like, we, you gotta get in there and scrub it clean. You gotta get that infection out. And so, yeah, it is hard and it is painful, but do you want to get healthy is the question, or do you want to stay sick? Do you wanna stay infected and stay sick? Th th this is important. It’s, it’s an important step. And it is, it’s the step that kind of breaks us out of the bad habits that we’re used to. Like you’re talking about, Eric, we’re used to running from conflict. We’re used to not having hard conversations. We’re used to not facing, um, our demons. You know, you might say like, we’re used to not facing that stuff, and this is the step where we, we do it differently this time. We’re gonna stand up and be courageous and, and do the hard thing.
Speaker 1 00:22:12 And in that, in doing so, the fear is, is that we might come into some conflict that might, might be com might be uncomfortable, we might have to experience some pain and some suffering and rejection, the fear of rejection that so many addicts have. And this is beautiful, um, because our, our example should come from Christ. And so in one Peter two 20 through 23, I just want to read this, it’s so beautiful, actually starting in verse 21, for God called you to do good, even if it means suffering just as Christ suffered for you, he is your example, and you must follow his steps. He never sinned nor ever deceived anyone. He did not retaliate when he was insulted nor threaten revenge when he suffered, he left his case in the hands of God, who always judges fairly. You see, Jesus was our example, even though he had nothing to make amends for.
Speaker 1 00:23:10 And so how much if he could do, do that right? And, and trust God with the outcome of his life by doing good and, and suffering, how much more so should we, people who have sinned and hurt people, say, you know what? I’m going to do what God has called me to do. I’m going to do good. And if it means suffering, I have the suffering servant to, to model my life after. And, and, and if they come at me with insults, I don’t need to retaliate. If they get angry at me, I should just be able to handle it. I’ve gotta come to this conversation with humility and trust that God is going to work it out. You know, we only have control over our side of the street what we can do. But if we’re gonna have victory, ultimately, it all relies on trusting that God wants us to recover more than we do. And so he will be with us in those conversations.
Speaker 2 00:24:06 That’s good. All right, well, let’s get practical then. Let’s, why don’t we end this topic or this podcast, at least let’s end this on a practical note, the five apology languages. Remember, just like love languages, there’s a certain way someone else might give and receive love, and it might be different than the way we give and receive love. Apologies. Languages are are the same way. You might, you might need a certain thing in an apology from someone in order to really feel like it counts, and it might be different than what they need. So it’s helpful just to, I don’t think this is an exhaustive list, by the way, of these five apology languages, but I think it’s helpful to use this as a framework to say, oh, okay, I didn’t realize that there’s a different way. So even as we go through this, guys, think about what your apology language might be.
Speaker 2 00:24:55 And then, and then let’s think about how to apply this then to, to step number nine in recovery. Okay, so let me read the languages real quick, and then let’s talk about each one of ’em one by one. All right? Number one, expressing regret. So some people want to hear you express regret. It needs to be rooted in emotions. They want you to acknowledge the emotional pain you’ve caused them. So that’s the first one. Expressing regret. I am so sorry that I did this. Number two, taking responsibility. Some people want to hear you accept responsibility for your actions. This is where you take ownership. You stop making excuses. Number three, making restitution. Again, as people are listening to this, just think about if that one really resonates with you, making restitution. Some people want you to make restitution. They want you to write a wrong and to make up for the pain that was caused, right?
Speaker 2 00:25:52 Pay a price. Number four, we’re gonna call it genuine repentance. These are the people who want to know the specific things you’ll do differently next time. Like, I’m going to do it differently. It’s not, you know, these are the people who think that words are cheap, right? Talk is cheap. And then number five, requesting forgiveness. So these are the people who want you to say, will you forgive me? Will you please forgive me? So why don’t we just start with this question, guys. As I read those five to you, is there one of ’em that is your apology language? Is there one of ’em that really jumps out and says, that’s the one that really resonates with me?
Speaker 3 00:26:38 Yeah, I actually took this, uh, apology inventory that we have in the, um, at the bottom of the, this lesson. I’ll pursue God here. And, um, it actually will rate you, um, percentage wise on where you fit, fit in the most. And, and mine, um, was requesting forgiveness for me. I think, you know, maybe because, maybe because that’s how I’ve operated, is not being some, somebody that would go and offer apologies very easily. Uh, maybe somebody requesting forgiveness from me stands out to me more. Um, so that’s the one that I rated, um, highest on, and praise God that, uh, my wife has the same apology language. <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:27:21 That’s probably helpful, huh?
Speaker 3 00:27:23 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:24 Yeah. That’s actually my, my lowest one. I wh when somebody comes in, in a and asks for forgiveness and they say, will you forgive me? They want me to say it back to them. For some reason, that kind of bothers me. I’m not really sure why that bothers me. So I think that just shows that that’s not high on my list. The, the, for me, the higher one on the list is I wanna know that they’re taking responsibility when they’re asking me to forgive them. I, to me, I feel, it feels like it’s not about them anymore. I think it needs to be about them. They need, I wanna make sure you know what you did wrong and that you are gonna accept it and own it. My kids hate that. I’m always telling them, own it. You need to own it. I want you to own it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> don’t, you’re not the victim. I want you to own it. So anyway, that’s mine.
Speaker 1 00:28:08 Yeah, I’m similar. Um, where I believe that that’s the one on the list that I probably desire the most and probably do the best in my relationships is probably because all the, uh, you know, the intense counseling I had <laugh>, you know, through, uh, um, you know, addiction, recovery, you know, and, and stuff like that have having to be drilled by counselors and in groups, and then, you know, doing these steps and stuff, and then you go bring them to your sponsor, your mentor, your counselor, and then they, they turn around and say, you weren’t honest enough. Go back and fill this out more. We need to hear more stories, more inventory. You know, I got to the point, uh, again, along with a lot of the consequences that I’ve had to face in my life for the, the wrong things that I’ve done, um, I’ve felt like God did this work in me where it’s like he, he removed the blinders, um, in my life about being able to own my problems. My wife often says, you’re really good, uh, explaining all the things that you did wrong. Like, you’re really good at that. The, the, the one part you’re not as good at is actually changing
Speaker 3 00:29:25 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:29:25 Oh, okay. You know, actually, which one’s that, which
Speaker 1 00:29:27 Doing something different, which would probably be
Speaker 2 00:29:30 What? Genuine, genuine repentance, genuine repentances. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, not just worldly. Sor, you know, uh, second Corinthians seven 10 talks about the difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow. Worldly sorrow is when you’re sorrow, you got caught <laugh>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, godly sorrow is when you’re really, genuinely sorry that you offended God, that you heard another person. And godly sorrow results in repentance. That’s what second Corinthians seven 10 says, godly sorrow. The end result is genuine repentance, right? Which is what we’ve been talking about is you’re actually gonna do things differently, which, which is what they’re doing when they get to step number nine, because it shows, hopefully it’s gonna show this is different. You guys are owning it, and you guys, you’re doing something. You’re working the steps.
Speaker 3 00:30:16 Yeah. And I think as we’re reading through these, I think going and making amends, I mean, as we’re reading through each one of these, I think you do kind of need to hit on each one. You really need to understand the emotional pain you’ve caused. You need to take responsibility, right? And, and you do need to make restitution in some way or another. Um, and, and I think maybe that’s something to express too, in making amends, I, I think hitting on all of these is, is important to, to do in the process of making amends.
Speaker 2 00:30:51 Well, right? Because you don’t know what, you don’t know what that other person’s apology language is. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So why not, why not try to hit as many of these as you possibly can? So why don’t we do that? Let’s model this. Let’s do a little role play here. Let’s model this for people who probably aren’t really good at apologizing. So, uh, let’s try to be an example here as we finish up. Let’s go through each one of these, and how would you do this? How would you actually do this? Right? Number one, expressing regret. How would you say that to somebody?
Speaker 1 00:31:19 Yeah. I think that that’s more of a kind of a outward emotive response. You know, like you can visually see the, the pain or the struggle on a person’s face in their voice. You know, the way that they say things, how they say things, the words that they say. I think that’s, that’s one visual way that you’d be able to help express regret that, that I would, again, admit like expressions for me are, are really hard. You know, like, I don’t know.
Speaker 2 00:31:53 Well, because what you’re doing is you’re trying to see it from their point of view. That’s what you’re doing is you’re, you would do it here, is you’d say, I recognize how much pain I put you through mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry that I put you through what I put you through mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m so sorry for the emotional pain that that caused. You see all the language is about them and what you did to them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:32:16 And it’s, and it’s acknowledging the emotional pain, right? Yeah. It’s actually expressing that verbalizing Yeah. The pain that you have caused. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:32:24 Yeah. That’s good. Because again, for some people, that’s hard. I can see how that’s hard for you, Eric, because you, maybe you’re thinking about it more. You’re, if you’re more of an ownership guy, you’re taking ownership for your part of it. And some people maybe are a bit more wired to say, I gotta, I’m gonna take my part, I’m gonna gonna own my part. That’s good. But we’re talking about social skill now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we’re talking about recognizing the emotions in another person, acknowledging that and having empathy for what they went through. I know people who, who are actually emotional people, but they have the hardest time recognizing emotions in other people, recognizing what the, the damage that they’re causing in someone else. They’re so, they’re so focused on their end of it, but that’s only half of the equation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you need to really be able to express regret from the vantage point of what you did to them and how it felt to them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. That’s number one. Number two, take responsibility. So how would you, how would you model this part in your apology?
Speaker 3 00:33:21 Well, I think this would be where I would <laugh>, you know, in my apology express that this is, this is, uh, all my doing. I know that, um, I, I know that, um, I’m, the, on i, there, there are no excuses, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I have, I have no excuse. I did this, I was wrong, and I’m sorry.
Speaker 1 00:33:44 Yeah. And specific examples I think is what people want to hear because they, they have things in their mind about what you did, and it, and they want to hear that you’re actually acknowledging that you know, the specifics of what was wrong, right?
Speaker 3 00:34:00 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:34:00 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that’s good. So you’re not coming and saying, look, I did this because of the, of the, you know, bad hand I was dealt in my younger years, even though that might be true. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you’re, you’re resisting the urge to make excuses.
Speaker 3 00:34:14 Yeah. The, the things that you could use for excuses for anything should, shouldn’t be part of any part of your apology. Ever. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:34:22 That’s good. All right. So number three, making restitution, how would this play out in the apology?
Speaker 1 00:34:34 Well, I think, I mean, practically one of the most obvious examples is if you, you caused some kind of monetary damage or you stole from someone, or, you know, cost somebody a lot of money is to be able to pay back money if you could, um, or to fix something that you broke in anger, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’ve met so many people that have, you know, punched walls, broken doors, broken things, you know, thrown things out the window mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, in fights and conflict and, and stuff like that. And so in my, in my situation, you know, but one of the things comes up as like, the things that I did to my parents, I don’t know that I could ever possibly repay them monetarily. I mean, that would be, you know, I would be, I’d be broke <laugh>, they did so much for me that, that, and I don’t think kids could ever repay their parents Yeah. For the things that they do. Yeah. Um, and I want to, I have a genuine heart to want to be generous to them and stuff, but sometimes you, you can’t pay back all that you did in that type of a way, but at least, you know, making an effort.
Speaker 3 00:35:43 Mm-hmm. I think mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:44 And maybe even just saying that, just saying, mom and dad, I could never pay you back. And they’re probably not asking for it. Right? Yeah. Because how, how do you even put a price tag on that? But maybe just to say, but, but my, I, you know, I hope my life is a, is part of that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I hope the, you know, the life I live. All right. Number four, genuine repentance. What would genuine repentance look like in your apology? What would that, how would you genuinely repent?
Speaker 3 00:36:10 Well, I think this, this comes down to actually showing your apology. This is demonstrating your apology. This is, um, and this would be, uh, you know, in the process of making amends, explaining exactly what you’re going to do differently going forward, you know, um, I’m sorry I did this. Um, I, I am not gonna do that ever again. Here is what I’m going to do. Here is how I’m going to operate going forward when things like this happen.
Speaker 2 00:36:39 That’s good. And then finally, number five, this is yours, mark. So speak to this requesting forgiveness. Um, how would you, are you saying that at the end of all this, you come and you, you, you try to do these things. You, uh, you express regret, you take ownership, you, you articulate that you wanna make restitution, you genuinely repent and show them the stuff that you’re gonna be doing differently, and you’re inviting them to hold you accountable to it. Are you saying at the end of this, you should say to them, will you please forgive me?
Speaker 3 00:37:12 Yeah. I think that is acknowledging it kind of, it, it ties in with the expressing regret, um, that you are acknowledging the pain, the hurt that you’ve caused, and, and you’re taking ownership for that. And, and so that says to them, I know what I did to you personally, and if you can forgive me, <laugh>, um, that’s what I really want more than anything.
Speaker 2 00:37:38 Okay. So if they say, if they say, I, I don’t know if I can, I, I’m not sure if I thank you for saying all this, but I’m not, I’m, I need some time. Are you gonna sit there and push and say, no, wait, I need you to, Eric, I think you said this last week, I need to hear it. Crystal, will you forgive me? Will you say the words?
Speaker 1 00:37:57 No. Usually what I say is, you know what Jesus says, <laugh> <laugh>. If you’re a Christian, you have to forgive me.
Speaker 2 00:38:06 Well, but that’s, that’s my point, right? Because I could see, I could see in your zeal as a recovering addict that you’re gonna not, you’re not gonna let this go until they forgive you. And I guess my, I would say, you guys tell me if I’m wrong, I would say, no, that’s not, you need to clean your side of the street. You can say, will you forgive me? But if they’re hesitant, don’t push that. Maybe that’s not, maybe that’s not the time.
Speaker 3 00:38:28 No. And I think like we’ve talked about before, that’s not the forgiveness is, is is a benefit that you want, but that’s not the end, the, the, the primary goal in doing this anyways.
Speaker 1 00:38:40 Yeah. I think though that it is being clear at the end of the day. I mean, making amends, that’s kind of buttoning up the whole thing. Like, I am being clear here. This is what I’m asking of you. And I know that it’s a hard thing, you know, to ask for forgiveness for all the things that I’ve done wrong. But just clearly I am trying to better myself. I am trying to follow the Lord. And I’m asking clearly, will you, will you forgive me? And if you won’t, that’s okay. I’m gonna move on from this because I’m cleaning my side of the street, and I can understand if you won’t, um, and some people won’t forgive you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, that’s just the honest truth is that there might not be people that offer us forgiveness or are able to do it, um, the Jesus way.
Speaker 1 00:39:28 Um, but at least we know this is, this is, you know, the confidence that we ought to have. And this is the, what I tell people in recovery groups all the time is, Hey, you know, at the end of the day, um, God loves us, God forgave us. And then if other people can’t get there yet, that’s okay. Because the most important person in all of the universe has, he thinks highly of me. He’s washed me clean, and he’s set me free. Um, and so even when other people won’t forgive me, I can, I can have confidence and hold my head high that God loves me, and my slate is wash clean. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:40:08 <affirmative>, I think, I think, yeah, on that line, I think the greatest apology is to make your life, um, one that reflects Christ, right? One that honors God. That’s the greatest apology that that can be had. And some people will see that over time.
Speaker 2 00:40:26 Well, guys, why don’t we end today’s podcast just by reading from the big book. We’ve already read a lot from the, from God’s book, which is even better. It’s an even better book. But the big book has, uh, has, has a little word here for us too, called The Ninth Step Promises.
Speaker 1 00:40:42 All right? It says this, if we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are halfway through. We’re going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity, and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self pity will disappear. We will lose interest and selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us. What we could not do for ourselves are these extravagant promises. We think not they’re being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.
Speaker 2 00:41:45 So work step number nine. If you want to talk about this with your family, with the small group, or with your mentor or sponsor, you can find all [email protected]. Just search the keyword recovery and join us next time as we talk about step number 10.